RetroBASIC

Basicprogramming(.org) => Community news and announcements => Topic started by: Richly on September 18, 2016, 10:31:03 pm

Title: Logic BASIC
Post by: Richly on September 18, 2016, 10:31:03 pm
Logic BASIC for Windows and Linux

http://logicbasic.net/

Nice IDE and good documentation and Help files.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Richly on September 19, 2016, 05:04:52 am
Looks like The Linux option is only available through using Wine...
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: ScriptBasic on September 19, 2016, 06:01:58 am
Quote
Looks like The Linux option is only available through using Wine...

Windows only BASIC.

I hear the same rubbish from the FreeBASIC folks when they say it runs on 64 bit Linux. Just don't forget to install the 32 bit libraries and 32 bit runtime support.  ::)
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: jbk on September 19, 2016, 08:53:26 am
the syntax looks like a cross between Pascal and Basic but that's no problem, could be useful for making quick gui-programs.
@John
I have installed FreeBasic x64 on Ubuntu x64 without having to install any 32-bit libs and compiled and run programs without any problems.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Rick3137 on September 19, 2016, 01:31:46 pm
  Looks cool. This should keep me busy for awhile.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Cybermonkey on September 19, 2016, 05:41:48 pm
Quote
Looks like The Linux option is only available through using Wine...

Windows only BASIC.

I hear the same rubbish from the FreeBASIC folks when they say it runs on 64 bit Linux. Just don't forget to install the 32 bit libraries and 32 bit runtime support.  ::)

Since a few versions this isn't necessary anymore. I works now really nice although not all (third party) libraries/headers are ported to 64 bit, yet. But SDL2 is, so my framework works well.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: ZXDunny on September 19, 2016, 10:18:48 pm
Quote
Looks like The Linux option is only available through using Wine...

Windows only BASIC.

I hear the same rubbish from the FreeBASIC folks when they say it runs on 64 bit Linux. Just don't forget to install the 32 bit libraries and 32 bit runtime support.  ::)

Since a few versions this isn't necessary anymore. I works now really nice although not all (third party) libraries/headers are ported to 64 bit, yet. But SDL2 is, so my framework works well.

I'm running Mint on a few boxes here, and I've never had any problems running 32bit binaries on my 64bit systems OOTB, not since the days of Slackware 12, and I suspect that's only because Slackware has the attitude of "You want it? You bloody set it up then".

I Love Slack :)

D.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Tomaaz on September 21, 2016, 10:20:58 am
I'm running Mint on a few boxes here, and I've never had any problems running 32bit binaries on my 64bit systems...

I don't think anyone has, but it wasn't John's point. What John wanted to say is that FreeBasic doesn't have a proper 64-bit version and this makes ScriptBasic superior. ;)

EDIT But here is a question. Can a version that requires Wine to run be called a Linux version? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm just wondering.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: ZXDunny on September 21, 2016, 01:55:16 pm
I'm running Mint on a few boxes here, and I've never had any problems running 32bit binaries on my 64bit systems...

I don't think anyone has, but it wasn't John's point. What John wanted to say is that FreeBasic doesn't have a proper 64-bit version and this makes ScriptBasic superior. ;)

EDIT But here is a question. Can a version that requires Wine to run be called a Linux version? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm just wondering.

No, if it requires WINE then you have to install a load of extra libraries and gubbins to your linux system in order to launch it... Oh, wait. That sounds oddly familiar... :)
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: dragomrak on September 21, 2016, 03:37:58 pm
It looks cool and very easy to understand. I'll give it a try.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Tomaaz on September 21, 2016, 04:12:23 pm
So here is another question - is Logic Basic a BASIC? Or is it another example of what is this topic (http://retrogamecoding.org/board/index.php?topic=490.0) about?  ;)

Quote
Font Parent.Name = "Arial"
Font Parent.Color = Blue
Font Parent.Size = 20
...
Write "Logic Basic"

No then, no else if, no for/next loop. You need to declare variables. Well...
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Aurel on September 21, 2016, 05:28:50 pm
Quote
So here is another question - is Logic Basic a BASIC?
Answer is simple :
YES LOGIC BASIC IS BASIC
because have BASIC in name  ;D ;D ;D
even looks unLogical  ;D

vodka is good but schnaps is better :D
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: ScriptBasic on September 21, 2016, 05:37:08 pm
Quote
Can a version that requires Wine to run be called a Linux version?

Can a Java VM (like Android) be called a Linux program?
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Tomaaz on September 21, 2016, 05:52:38 pm
Can a Java VM (like Android) be called a Linux program?

What!? :) I don't understand the question. :) Are you trying to say that Android is a Windows program? Or a BSD program? :)

Well, when I install a Linux version of Java on my Linux system, I install a Linux program.

Quote
So here is another question - is Logic Basic a BASIC?
Answer is simple :
YES LOGIC BASIC IS BASIC
because have BASIC in name  ;D ;D ;D
even looks unLogical  ;D

Do you mean "illogical"? :)
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: ScriptBasic on September 21, 2016, 06:04:14 pm
Quote
Are you trying to say that Android is a Windows program?

Android is a VM that runs on top of Linux. Sort of like how SysWOW64 runs on top of Windows 64 bit.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Tomaaz on September 21, 2016, 06:06:18 pm
Android is a VM that runs on top of Linux.

Must be a Linux program then. Hmmm... ;)

When I run VM on Windows, I run a Windows program. When I run VM on Linux, I run a Linux program. Well, maybe...  ;D BTW Wine is not VM.

And here is another question - is Wine a Linux program?  ;D
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: ScriptBasic on September 21, 2016, 06:18:28 pm
Quote
is Wine a Linux program?

Wine is a system level API that runs Windows programs under Linux.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Tomaaz on September 21, 2016, 06:42:19 pm
Wine is a system level API that runs Windows programs under Linux.

John, that was kind of a rhetorical question. ;) But since you've answered it... Yes, Wine is a compatibility layer, but to be able to use it on your Linux installation you need to download and install several Linux programs and libraries. How is it different from installing native Linux programs? In most cases you will have to install several Linux programs and/or libraries, so? But please, don't take it to serious. ;) Of course, everybody here can see the difference between native Linux applications and these run under Wine, but the question is - if something run without problems under Wine, can the author claim that the program run on Linux?
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: ScriptBasic on September 21, 2016, 06:47:58 pm
I think the keyword is native Linux program.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Tomaaz on September 21, 2016, 06:55:55 pm
I think the keyword is native Linux program.

I understand your point, but it is an ideological one. Personally, I wouldn't have anything against the situation when the software comes only in a form of Windows version, but the author makes sure that it run smoothly and without any problems under Wine. Why should I care? If the program works and the whole solution makes its developer's life easier, I can't see any reason to complain.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: ScriptBasic on September 21, 2016, 07:41:45 pm
I run O2 under Wine all the time. I normally use VirtualBox under Linux to run my 32 bit Windows programs.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: B+ on September 21, 2016, 07:53:49 pm
So here is another question - is Logic Basic a BASIC? Or is it another example of what is this topic (http://retrogamecoding.org/board/index.php?topic=490.0) about?  ;)

Quote
Font Parent.Name = "Arial"
Font Parent.Color = Blue
Font Parent.Size = 20
...
Write "Logic Basic"

No then, no else if, no for/next loop. You need to declare variables. Well...

The words don't make a language Basic or not (but help).
What the language sets out to do, allow non programmers access to easy PL is in spirit of Basic but also they seem to want to preserve some of the flavor of old MS Basics according to Intros they present.

PS, they don't say they are a BASIC (all capitals) which to me is different than calling themselves Logic BASIC, which is how Richey has titled this thread, most provocatively!
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Tomaaz on September 21, 2016, 08:20:31 pm
PS, they don't say they are a BASIC (all capitals) which to me is different than calling themselves Logic BASIC...

Good, because it's not BASIC. ;)
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Richly on September 21, 2016, 08:55:02 pm
So here is another question - is Logic Basic a BASIC? Or is it another example of what is this topic (http://retrogamecoding.org/board/index.php?topic=490.0) about?  ;)

Quote
Font Parent.Name = "Arial"
Font Parent.Color = Blue
Font Parent.Size = 20
...
Write "Logic Basic"

No then, no else if, no for/next loop. You need to declare variables. Well...

Well, it does have...

If..Else..EndIf
While..Loop
Sub..EndSub
And...Or

...and it even has GoTo (although no line numbers :) )
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Richly on September 21, 2016, 08:57:39 pm
PS, they don't say they are a BASIC (all capitals) which to me is different than calling themselves Logic BASIC, which is how Richey has titled this thread, most provocatively!

Automatic, I'm afraid :)

No, I think this is a Basic rather than a BASIC, albeit a nice Basic :)
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: B+ on September 21, 2016, 09:30:00 pm
Hi Richey,

Do you have some code examples to show why you think it is nice?

These general terms, good, nice,,, Basic  :D don't really explain the opinion you are expressing.

Tomaaz has mentioned documentation, forums, support...

I checked the forum for Logic Basic, it has one board, pretty stark!
RC Basic started up around same time and has much more, N00b a member of this forum, would probably enjoy your notice of his efforts.

Logic Basic support = write an email to the authors.

I haven't checked docs, how do you set up a window?
Can you create a standalone exe? How many dll's are needed?
Oh wait,... those aren't BASIC questions.

I think, to demonstrate you know what you are talking about, you should get some code examples written up to show how easy it is to get started with the dialect. That would be a good, nice, "Basic" and effective criteria in my opinion.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Richly on September 21, 2016, 09:49:23 pm
Hi Richey,

Do you have some code examples to show why you think it is nice?

These general terms, good, nice,,, Basic  :D don't really explain the opinion you are expressing.

Tomaaz has mentioned documentation, forums, support...

I checked the forum for Logic Basic, it has one board, pretty stark!
RC Basic started up around same time and has much more.

Logic Basic support = write an email to the authors.

I haven't checked docs, how do you set up a window?
Can you create a standalone exe? How many dll's are needed?

Well, you could always check it out yourself if you have some time  ;)

I'm going through the docs at the moment and trying out some of the examples provided. Here is a very simple illustration of how 'nice' and easy the code appears...I haven't got to the GUI controls yet:

Code: [Select]
' Array Example
Variable VarName(20) String, Age(20) Integer

VarName(0)="Amy"
Age(0)=16
VarName(1)="Danny"
Age(1)=40
VarName(2)="Andrew"
Age(2)=25

Variable x Integer
x=0
While x<=2
Write varName(x)," ",Age(x) 
x++
Loop

My first impression is that the IDE, documentation and indeed the language itself is clear, simple and uncluttered...sort of, basic...but in a good way  :)
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: B+ on September 21, 2016, 10:01:28 pm
Hi Richey,

I guess our postings have crossed paths in time.

I hadn't finished editing mine...

I guess what I would particularly like to see is a graphics example. For me, that is true test of a Basic for Beginners. This is an area that Python fails eg, the amount of work it takes to draw a box on the screen or get a key press or mouse click from the user.


Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Richly on September 21, 2016, 10:09:22 pm
Hi Richey,

I guess our postings have crossed paths in time.

I hadn't finished editing mine...

I guess what I would particularly like to see is a graphics example. For me, that is true test of a Basic for Beginners. This is an area that Python fails eg, the amount of work it takes to draw a box on the screen or get a key press or mouse click from the user.

My interest lies in the ease of use of the GUI capabilities it might offer...
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Richly on September 21, 2016, 10:23:19 pm
I'm going through the docs at the moment and trying out some of the examples provided. Here is a very simple illustration of how 'nice' and easy the code appears...I haven't got to the GUI controls yet:

Code: [Select]
' Array Example
Variable VarName(20) String, Age(20) Integer

VarName(0)="Amy"
Age(0)=16
VarName(1)="Danny"
Age(1)=40
VarName(2)="Andrew"
Age(2)=25

Variable x Integer
x=0
While x<=2
Write varName(x)," ",Age(x) 
x++
Loop

My first impression is that the IDE, documentation and indeed the language itself is clear, simple and uncluttered...sort of, basic...but in a good way  :)

Here is the same code translated to C by way of comparison...

Code: [Select]
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

#define SIZE 3

int main()
{
    char name[SIZE][7]={"Amy","Danny","Andrew"};
    int age[]={16,40,25};
    int x;

    while(x<=2)
    {
        printf("%s ",name[x]);
        printf("%d ",age[x]);
        x++;
    }

    return 0;
}

Some similarities, although LB is clearer I think.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: ScriptBasic on September 21, 2016, 10:51:55 pm
That's not BASIC. I would rather invest my time learning JavaScript.

Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Richly on September 21, 2016, 11:04:04 pm
That's not BASIC.


No, it's Basic  ;D
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: B+ on September 21, 2016, 11:22:45 pm
Well C is definitely not Basic or BASIC, so comparing to that for contrast? doesn't make a great argument.

But seeing a GUI example in Logic Basic would be cool.  8)

I'd like to compare with JB and what I remember from early versions of VB, two very different approaches!
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Richly on September 21, 2016, 11:29:34 pm
Well C is definitely not Basic or BASIC, so comparing to that for contrast? doesn't make a great argument.

But seeing a GUI example in Logic Basic would be cool.  8)

I'd like to compare with JB and what I remember from early versions of VB, two very different approaches!

True, that was me just indulging myself since I'm learning C  ;D
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Tomaaz on September 21, 2016, 11:48:16 pm
This is an area that Python fails eg, the amount of work it takes to draw a box on the screen or get a key press or mouse click from the user.

Rectangle with processing.py:

Code: [Select]
rect(30, 20, 55, 55)
Mouse click from the user with processing.py:

Code: [Select]
def mouseclicked():
    your code here

Rectangle with graphics.py:

Code: [Select]
from graphics import *
win = GraphWin()
rect = Rectangle(Point(10, 10), Point(30, 30))
rect.draw(win)

Mouse click with graphics.py:
Code: [Select]
p = win.getMouse()
The amount of work you need to do to draw a box with processing.py (rect(30, 20, 55, 55)) is really overwhelming. And to get mouse click with graphics.py (p = win.getMouse()) is extremely complicated. I really think it's time to stop spreading this nonsense. If you're to lazy to try then say you're to lazy to try. If you're not able to learn anything new, say you're not able to learn anything new. Don't blame the language that is widely used by 10 years old kids. That's silly.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: ScriptBasic on September 22, 2016, 12:00:31 am
Quote
Well C is definitely not Basic or BASIC, so comparing to that for contrast? doesn't make a great argument.

You should have a look at C BASIC if you think C isn't BASIC like.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: B+ on September 22, 2016, 03:35:54 am
This is an area that Python fails eg, the amount of work it takes to draw a box on the screen or get a key press or mouse click from the user.

Rectangle with processing.py:

Code: [Select]
rect(30, 20, 55, 55)
Mouse click from the user with processing.py:

Code: [Select]
def mouseclicked():
    your code here

Rectangle with graphics.py:

Code: [Select]
from graphics import *
win = GraphWin()
rect = Rectangle(Point(10, 10), Point(30, 30))
rect.draw(win)

Mouse click with graphics.py:
Code: [Select]
p = win.getMouse()
The amount of work you need to do to draw a box with processing.py (rect(30, 20, 55, 55)) is really overwhelming. And to get mouse click with graphics.py (p = win.getMouse()) is extremely complicated. I really think it's time to stop spreading this nonsense. If you're to lazy to try then say you're to lazy to try. If you're not able to learn anything new, say you're not able to learn anything new. Don't blame the language that is widely used by 10 years old kids. That's silly.

I wouldn't call it lazy or failing to learn, I'd call it getting hung up by dam details.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Tomaaz on September 22, 2016, 08:39:33 am
I wouldn't call it lazy or failing to learn, I'd call it getting hung up by dam details.

Do you mean this strange numbers in rect(30, 20, 55, 55)?  ;D Seriously, can drawing a rectangle on screen be possibly done in a simpler way?
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Aurel on September 22, 2016, 08:48:29 am
Quote
. I really think it's time to stop spreading this nonsense.
:o
Quote
Don't blame the language that is widely used by 10 years old kids
..and this is real nonsense   ;D
where ? in Poland maybe?
bravo tomek ! bravo...! :D
this topic become really funny  :)

everyone normal know that python cann't replace BASIC  ;)
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Tomaaz on September 22, 2016, 03:24:24 pm
where ? in Poland maybe?

Not exactly, but I'm gonna give you a hint - https://www.raspberrypi.org/ .  ;)

everyone normal know that python cann't replace BASIC  ;)

I have a very bad news for you. It already has.  ;D
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Aurel on September 22, 2016, 03:51:33 pm
ahh yes ..old story of course on linux but on windows
i doubt very ,very much  :)
my son last school year learn qbasic in Informatics
and this year he say that they will learn VB.net.
in high school students learn C#,C/C++ and Java. 

by the way I have tried to run one ,let say on first look good
circuit simulator written in python( i use WinPython 2.7) and nothing
then i found that this crap not work on windows  >:(
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: B+ on September 22, 2016, 04:22:40 pm
I wouldn't call it lazy or failing to learn, I'd call it getting hung up by dam details.

Do you mean this strange numbers in rect(30, 20, 55, 55)?  ;D Seriously, can drawing a rectangle on screen be possibly done in a simpler way?

Drawing the rectangle is nothing but getting the code that can draw the rectangle and putting it in the correct place and running it all under the correct conditions is not so simple. Are 55, 55 width, height or the opposite corner to 30, 20, just a little details, that are simple to lookup once you figure out how to navigate the docs, access to which is also not built in.

It is different with kids starting with Python as first language and learning Python on top of several versions of Basic.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Tomaaz on September 22, 2016, 05:13:15 pm
Drawing the rectangle is nothing but getting the code that can draw the rectangle and putting it in the correct place and running it all under the correct conditions is not so simple.

It's as simple as in BASIC.

Are 55, 55 width, height or the opposite corner to 30, 20, just a little details, that are simple to lookup once you figure out how to navigate the docs, access to which is also not built in.

Are you ready to take any effort to learn new things or everything needs to be build-in and explained the way suitable for a ten year old kid? How difficult is to go to py.processing.org and find revelant information? Or simply try the code and learn from the results? I think we all should be prepared for a bit of digging in the documentation etc.;)  IMO, it's easier to find something related to Python than, let's say, FreeBASIC.

It is different with kids starting with Python as first language and learning Python on top of several versions of Basic.

That would work the opposite way, too, so saying that "Python has failed" to be beginner friendly is a bit unfair.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: B+ on September 22, 2016, 08:00:40 pm
...

I guess what I would particularly like to see is a graphics example. For me, that is true test of a Basic for Beginners. This is an area that Python fails eg, the amount of work it takes to draw a box on the screen or get a key press or mouse click from the user.

I don't know about FreeBasic and I don't know of any other Basic that can do this straight out of the box:
Code: [Select]
print "Hello"
rect 20, 30 step 55,55, 12 filled

So pretty much all Basic's fail this personal criteria that I myself have for Basic as a Beginner's language. Python defenders don't have to take it personally.  ;D
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: ScriptBasic on September 22, 2016, 08:34:43 pm
If you want a BASIC that does everything you want under Window, do what the majority of BASIC programmers do and use VB.NET. With .NET open source,  you may be able to run the executables on Linux someday.-
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Tomaaz on September 22, 2016, 10:19:56 pm
So pretty much all Basic's fail this personal criteria that I myself...

I see... If you're talking about your personal criteria limited to yourself, then, of course, you can say whatever you want. ;) And no - I'm not a Python fanboy. There are several things about this language that annoy me a lot, but it really is easy to start with.
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: Aurel on September 22, 2016, 10:25:52 pm
Quote
and I don't know of any other Basic that can do this straight out of the box:
then look this...
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: ZXDunny on September 22, 2016, 11:27:23 pm
Or even this?

Code: [Select]
10 PRINT MOVE 10,0;"Hello": RECTANGLE INK 12;20,30,55,55 FILL

If you omit the line number it will just execute it immediately which is even better for this type of program :D
Title: Re: Logic BASIC
Post by: B+ on September 23, 2016, 02:23:12 pm
Yep, those are really close! I forgot to mention this part (at far right of snapshot), help accessed with F1: