RetroBASIC
Offtopic => Offtopic => Topic started by: B+ on September 23, 2018, 02:28:41 AM
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Can you believe it? see attached
If anyone did any insisting, it was John insisting we all love his tool for servers.
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ScriptBasic
Guest
Re: SB demo
« Reply #5 on: 20. September 2018, 07:55:08 »
Quote
B+,
Tomaaz said he didn't like Script BASIC because there was no install program for Linux and was confused how to include the SB executable path or create the configuration file. I would have been happy to help him get going if he would have asked.
What don't you like about Script BASIC?
« Last Edit: 20. September 2018, 08:07:55 by John »
This in the middle of my thread showing a little demo of my toy interpreter.
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ScriptBasic
Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #17 on: 17. September 2018, 23:23:37 »
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When you can exceed the feature set of this calculator program, you can call your SB a language.
Qalculate
Code: [Select]
PRINT FORMAT("%d",1000000 / .0000001), "\n"
jrs@jrs-laptop:~/sb/examples/test$ scriba divcomp.sb
9999999999999
jrs@jrs-laptop:~/sb/examples/test$
Standard Linux Calculator
« Last Edit: 18. September 2018, 07:23:27 by John »
This in the middle of a thread talking about Beginner Friendly Basics.
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ScriptBasic
Guest
Re: 0.12.13 Released
« Reply #3 on: 13. September 2018, 21:10:59 »
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Script BASIC using MsgBox.
Code: [Select]
' Msgbox Ask Y/N
IMPORT NT.sbi
rtnval = NT::MsgBox("Would you like to test a yes or no question?","Test a Yes/No Question", "YN", "H", 1)
IF rtnval = "Y" THEN
NT::MsgBox("Yes","Result","ok","?",1)
ELSE
NT::MsgBox("No","Result","ok","?",1)
END IF
This in the SmallBASIC Board.
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ScriptBasic
Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #15 on: 17. September 2018, 17:42:02 »
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This is one area you will find hard to beat with Script BASIC. The extension and embedding APIs make SB expansion limitless.
Again from the Beginner friendly BASICs board.
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I think if you call your language a Basic you should have some Basic screen functions some color and graphics some help for beginners getting started but that is just me, I am certainly not "everyone".
I certainly did not insist John become a hobby programmer and what is wrong with suggestion of providing beginners help with the Script Basic product?
So who did all this insisting? Everyone?
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Offline John
Forum Support / SB Dev
Posts: 1774
ScriptBasic Open Source Project
Re: BASIC
« Reply #9 on: Today at 08:08:13 PM »
Quote
If anyone did any insisting, it was John insisting we all love his tool.
Does B+ stand for Bitterness Plus?
;D Well he said he was leaving ;)
I am hoping for Betterness.
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Well, I suspect that I was somewhat partly to blame for his leaving and I don't regret it one bit. He polluted every single thread started about other BASICs with comments about how they weren't BASIC, how they weren't as good as Script BASIC, and how anyone using them was wasting their time on "toys". It was becoming tiresome.
Besides, he's flounced out of here (and ancestor sites) before.
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BTW has anyone noticed that he has doctored his quote of me, cutting off "for servers" and moving the period to the end of "his tool".
What a crazy guy! ;D
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Is that on his ... was it EveryBASIC site? I can't find it now.
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Here: https://www.allbasic.info/forum/index.php?topic=496.0
Actually looks like great bunch of folks. We must get the Mr Hyde side of Dr J.
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Ha, just read Mike's comments, that gave me a good chuckle :)
I'll just carry on enjoying developing and using SpecBAS, and he is just as free to continue being wrong. I've said it before and I'll say it again - for pure fun, there's nothing like playing with your own custom-built sandbox that does precisely what you want it to do. But for work and serious purposes, there are other languages I use; I have no use for BASIC in a professional capacity.
That said, our team decided a while ago to add a scripting element to our DAW, for controlling internal DAW functions and MIDI devices by user-generated scripts. We evaluated a LOT of options (including Script BASIC) and decided to go with a custom Python build. Our users are musicians, not coders so there's a much better chance they'll be comfortable in Python.
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Just for curiosity - why Python and not Lua?
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Just for curiosity - why Python and not Lua?
Because we polled the users and that was the language that the (vast) majority wanted.
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Maybe the kids just want to go back to the time of 8-bit computing, PEEK & POKE, and cassette storage?
Well, it's nice that somebody gets it! Yes! Those days are the ones I remember fondly. We'd come out of the 70s and into the 80s where home-computer BASICs were just beginning to be useful for creating pretty much anything you wanted - albeit slowly - and a whole generation of coders got their first start in a new world. Hours and hours spent in front of the screen, maybe creating something new, solving a homework problem, typing in a printout from one of the many, many magazines you could buy.
That is what I wanted to create. A BASIC that goes back to those days - museum BASIC I believe an unpleasant person once called them. So I did, and I showed it to a small group of friends on a Sinclair board, and they went mad for it and started requesting extra stuff - sprites, better maths, higher resolution graphics, more colours - all the things they wished they'd had back in the day. And you know what? It's still popular! People are still using it! SO I'm still developing it. For fun, not profit.
So yeah, AlyssonR hits the nail on the head. Though with the implication that everything I do is bad, in much the same vein as Mike did. But that's ok - their opinions don't count.
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Sorry, AlyssonR's remark misses the mark for me.
Line numbers were a nuisance and spaghetti code a night mare, glad to be rid of peek and poke for mouse or interrupts as well.
I am mostly into mathematical drawing, game puzzles,... I have coded a couple of editors, custom database, math experiments... including extending precision of square roots and perfect division... all stuff done 10x's or 100's of times better by others, doesn't matter.
What hits the mark is opportunity to be creative, do stuff that works with infinite variations, dynamic drawing... also have a taste for uncluttered elegance which is why Tomaaz interests and D's code have such appeal. I never saw those coding magazines but that sounds like it, spend a couple hours coding some challenge and then see where 10 modifications of that take you. I have a taste for recursive routines and love to apply them to problems - kids stuff? or making games you can play against, Air Hockey, Battleship, Connect 4, might try Chess but Checkers would be first. Is AI kids stuff?
They say Mathematics is just playing games by rule sets, OK!
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Absolutely. And we are all free to pursue those goals in any way we see fit.
So when Mike says "spaghetti code as a direct consequence of line numbering is a contagious disease, and spaghetti code advocates breeding it in their retro-dialects (re. SpecBAS) should be persecuted as public enemies" I get a real Dijkstra flavour coming through, but then says that "goto is great and a must-have for any language out there" I can't help but chuckle.
Besides, is "persecuted as public enemies" just a little strong? I mean, am I allowed to do what I like with my own code or not? And why do people like Mike and John get to say what is and is not acceptable for me to be doing?
As I said before - I like line numbers, because it takes be back to the days when I was a beginner, when I had the most fun coding. Sure, I work professionally as a coder but modern languages and IDEs don't scratch that itch and bring the same joy. And apparently that's a bad thing!
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SpecBas is much more interesting and fun project than ScriptBasic. Why? ScriptBasic is just another scripting language. It's unfinished, feels dated and is definitely not the best in the category it belongs to. SpecBas, on the other hand, is an unique project that offers something really original. It's not trying to be this great language for everyone, its focused on a certain group of users. ScriptBasic can be easily replaced by one of the many other languages, but SpecBas can't. As long, as ZXDunny doesn't start to spam every single post here and claim that his language is the best BASIC ever, as long as he doesn't start to call languages like Python or Ruby to be "junk" or "bloated crap", I'm happy to see SpecBasic examples here, despite the fact that I really hate line numbers and GOTO.
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... I really hate line numbers and GOTO.
There was always a "conventional" goto in C, and now there are also "computed" goto's there, yet we never had much of "spaghetti code" issues in C programming. Hence my welcome to goto which often appears to be the only graceful way out in quite a number of practical coding situations (especially when one wishes to reuse blocks of similar code under different conditions), and my rejection of line numbers which thus appear to be the only reason of "spaghetti code" issue in retro-BASIC listings with their cumbersome yet indispensable line numbering.
'D' — deduction. Elementary, my dear Watson! (c) :D
It's unfinished, feels dated ...
Script BASIC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScriptBasic) was finished even way back when it first appeared on its original scriptbasic dot com site. It came in two flavors (Linux and Windows), was supplied with exhaustive user and developer documentation, and included a number of exemplary and practical extensions (both front- and back-end) to allow for future diversification and expansion.
Peter Verhas was as meticulous a language developer as there only can be. What his successors tried and achieved to a varying degree of success was building upon the solid base he was so prescient to provide.
SpecBas, on the other hand, is an unique project that offers something really original.
SpecBAS is essentially a more or less successful steam-punk project and should be treated as such. Nuff said.
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The havoc usually begins when somebody instigates, accidentally or on purpose, that silly discussion about "the most beginner-friendly BASIC" again — before the aging audience of chieftains with no Indians. Last time it was menn, this time it is B+. While you guys are at it, the beginners are mastering OxygenBasic. ;)
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... I really hate line numbers and GOTO.
There was always a "conventional" goto in C, and now there are also "computed" goto's there, yet we never had much of "spaghetti code" issues in C programming. Hence my welcome to goto which often appears to be the only graceful way out in quite a number of practical coding situations (especially when one wishes to reuse blocks of similar code under different conditions), and my rejection of line numbers which thus appear to be the only reason of "spaghetti code" issue in retro-BASIC listings with their cumbersome yet indispensable line numbering.
'D' — deduction. Elementary, my dear Watson! (c) :D
It's unfinished, feels dated ...
Script BASIC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScriptBasic) was finished even way back when it first appeared on its original scriptbasic dot com site. It came in two flavors (Linux and Windows), was supplied with exhaustive user and developer documentation, and included a number of exemplary and practical extensions (both front- and back-end) to allow for future diversification and expansion.
Peter Verhas was as meticulous a language developer as there only can be. What his successors tried and achieved to a varying degree of success was building upon the solid base he was so prescient to provide.
SpecBas, on the other hand, is an unique project that offers something really original.
SpecBAS is essentially a more or less successful steam-punk project and should be treated as such. Nuff said.
____________________________________
The havoc usually begins when somebody instigates, accidentally or on purpose, that silly discussion about "the most beginner-friendly BASIC" again — before the aging audience of chieftains with no Indians. Last time it was menn, this time it is B+. While you guys are at it, the beginners are mastering OxygenBasic. ;)
Yeah sure B+ stands for Blame me ;D
Yes by all means give me credit for getting rid of John. ;)
Thank you very much! :)
Poor, poor, helpless, innocent John. ::)
Mike look again at who started the thread. :P
And look again what beginners are mastering in droves, I think it's Python. And God or you only knows why?
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One thing I knows for sure: the time they elect you as the site Admin again will be the time I unsubscribe. You're losing your reputation in my eyes by leaps and bounds, Mark. Next time you wanna comment on my remarks addressed to another forum member, inhale deeply, exhale slowly through your nose, and go take a nap. Probably you should just sleep on it. :)
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Mike if you want a private conversation PM the guy.
If you want to accuse me publicly of something then expect me to reply.
You know, I think they call it trolling.
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Mark, sure you wouldn't meddle in the public conversation of two passers-by walking the same street as you even if they'd be talking things you don't particularly like? That would be trolling, not my mentioning someone in my words addressed to my interlocutor.
Something's seriously failing you, old pal, as was clearly seen in that hysterical OP of yours that used to open the Notes on Script BASIC thread. ???
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SpecBas, on the other hand, is an unique project that offers something really original.
SpecBAS is essentially a more or less successful steam-punk project and should be treated as such. Nuff said.
And that's your opinion, and that's fine, but please don't go around making remarks about how I should be persecuted for making it. SpecBAS brings me, and a lot of others, happiness and a nice nostalgic feeling. If you're declaring that this is bad and I should be punished then we're treading a fine line towards fascism. And I think we can all agree that we don't really want that.
Edit: We've already lost John due to his butthurt pride. He's spouting off that we were insisting that he dumb-down Script BASIC and make it "beginner friendly" when the exact opposite is true - he was insisting that anything but a professional BASIC was a waste of time and nothing more than a toy - and not just SpecBAS, but all the myriad BASICs out there that didn't meet his exacting standards. He got quite abusive about it and ended up getting called out for it, after which he ran away sobbing into his Wiki.
He's over in his echo-chamber right now making us out to be the bad guys here, but all we wanted to do was mess around in BASIC and maybe learn something from eachother. He's the one hurling accusations of us being children.
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SpecBAS brings me, and a lot of others, happiness and a nice nostalgic feeling.
Yep :)
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It was SpecBAS that brought me back to programming, BASIC and the ZX Spectrum.
My 10 year old daughter loves it too. She is using Scratch at school but we play with SpecBAS together at home and it really helps reinforce what she is learning through Scratch.
She already knows the basic concepts and GO TO and line numbers are actually really intuitive for her and help her understand the way the computer executes each line of code.
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She already knows the basic concepts and GO TO and line numbers are actually really intuitive for her and help her understand the way the computer executes each line of code.
See? That's precisely why I do this. And precisely (aside from nostalgia) that I insist on line numbers. It's how I learnt, back in the mists of time. It's how an entire generation of coders were started. It's perfect for beginners. And by "beginners" I don't mean people who can code things like
10 PRINT "Dixons are crap OK!"
20 GO TO 10
But people who cannot even do that. They understand nothing about programming. And when they do master the line numbers style, they can (and indeed should) migrate up to something that doesn't use them. Because all the real programming languages don't use them, and if they're going to expand their knowledge they will have to leave line numbers behind at some point. And let's face it, if they start with C or Pascal, they're gonna have bigger problems than just being able to see which instruction will be executed next - they might not even be able to find where their code actually starts :)
So thanks for that Comment, Richey. It's made my day in the face of all of these language snobs :D
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... a fine line towards fascism. And I think we can all agree that we don't really want that.
ROFLMAO!
Would you really mind if one almost accomplished fascist hangs out among y'all irreproachable liberals on this forum for a while longer yet? What about that notorious "toleration" we're hearing so much about these days? ;D
You're evidently mistaken about my origin and whereabouts. I'm not a Russian communo-fascist. I live in another country and profess other values.
And one more thing; it once took you almost three days to respond to my simple question that was definitely in your declared professional vein. Now hardly am I able to formulate my thoughts in an alien language and here you are popping up with your prompt and verbose rebuttals and labeling like a devil out of a snuffbox. Why's that? ;)
@Richey:
I'm glad your daughter loves it. After all, Paul does have a few very spectacular eye candies up his sleeve. But surely you aren't going to reduce the term "beginners" to 10 y.o. ladies only however cute and dear they may be, are you? The only "beginners" I ever met in recent ten years or so were all about Tomaaz's age. :)
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... a fine line towards fascism. And I think we can all agree that we don't really want that.
ROFLMAO!
Would you really mind if one almost accomplished fascist hangs out among y'all irreproachable liberals on this forum for a while longer yet? What about that notorious "toleration" we're hearing so much about these days? ;D
You're evidently mistaken about my origin and whereabouts. I'm not a Russian communo-fascist. I live in another country and profess other values.
I didn't say you are fascist - just that declaring people who write SpecBAS must be persecuted (your words) is stepping in that direction - and it doesn't matter which country you're from, ugly attitudes are pretty universal.
You're a good bloke and I've never had a quarrel with you before, but as soon as John gets his arse kicked for being, well, an arse, you started attacking me! And for no better reason than I enjoy writing and using a BASIC with line numbers no less. What happened to you, Mike? This behaviour is not like you at all.
And in case I've not made myself perfectly crystal clear: I (nor anyone else) did not demand that John make Script BASIC suitable for beginners, nobody said it had to have line numbers (it can already use them albeit in a very simple manner) or any other silliness. We merely pointed out that Script BASIC was (and is) not suitable for absolute beginners, unlike BASIC. John took the hump, became abusive and as I said earlier, got his arse handed to him on a plate. After which he flounced out the forum and sat in his echo chamber grumbling to himself.
But surely you aren't going to reduce the term "beginners" to 10 y.o. ladies only however cute and dear they may be, are you?
Of course not, anyone can be a beginner. And let's face it - young children are more likely to be beginners than adults (though there are plenty of adults starting out in learning to code). To my mind, a beginner is someone who has never coded before. In any sense. Has no clue how a computer works, but wants to learn. Others have different ideas of what it means to be a beginner, but that's mine.
As for the audio software question - Tomaaz answered it before I even noticed it was there, and in any case it's not my area of expertise. Hence my reply:
I don't really do anything musical, and I certainly don't make any. I just code the tools for others to do it.
And that's the truth.
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Paul,
Thanks for making yourself loud and clear fast. In fact, it prevented my posting a rather nasty piece of trolling to your address. That was one rare case when my slowness in English responses played into my hands. :)
What irritated me most in this recent "John's case" was your common unwillingness to deal with the situation in a civilized manner. There is Aurel, and Toomaz the cheerful serpentologist, and now Mark, and sometimes even me, that can be equally hard to bear in one's threads but nobody's really after their (our) heads for occasional PITA on this forum.
What regards John, his interference is usually rather easily controlled by a simple request to abstain from flooding the thread with irrelevant comments or out of place code snippets. We're all only human, after all.
I don't really understand why y'all preferred to hunt him down to unsubscription. He was only "facilitating" and "promoting" his dialect — the thing he's been doing to the best of his ability for as long as I can remember him, which, believe me, is in fact quite some time now.
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I understand what you're saying, but we really didn't force him to unsubscribe - he did that all himself.
For a very long time now I've seen him mercilessly tear into anyone who dares to use their BASIC for fun (including me, with nasty snide comments about "museum BASICs" and suchlike) with little to no provocation. Someone dared to suggest that Script BASIC was not really suitable for beginner coders, whereupon he started laying down the law on what a BASIC should and should not be, and that all other BASIC implementations were toys, that we were children for using or promoting them.
And I just saw red, and I snapped. And you know what? I stand by everything I said. Aurel can behave like a blithering idiot at times[1], B+ gets wrapped up in his experiments, Tomaaz loves him some Python/Ruby/Lisp/Whatever scripting and not a single one of them has ever suggested that their preferred platform is better than another and nor have they ridiculed others for wanting to use them. The only one who has done that is John. Can't access system APIs or libraries from your BASIC? Your BASIC is worthless then. Your BASIC hasn't been adopted as some sort of fantasy industry standard? Your BASIC is a toy then. The list of his nastiness goes on.
And the moment someone decides to throw that back in his face? He flounces out of the forum like a Diva without her morning Chai-Latte and goes and hides in his own wasteland. And it's not the first time he's done that, either.
Now, throughout my history on the BASIC programming scene I have blown up at someone like that precisely never before I did to him.
I'm sure everyone would welcome him back with open arms should he leave his bitchy nature at the door, but he seems incapable. Which means we'll just have to soldier on with our fun BASICs, our toys and our complete lack of professional adoption. But hey ho, eh?
[1] Aurel and Tomaaz have history. Aurel hates Python and says it's not BASIC (which it isn't) and Tomaaz likes to post Python and suchlike to wind Aurel up. But that's more of a tradition at this point and it's fun to watch them banter. And besides, at least Aurel has actually written a few interpreters...
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... I really hate line numbers and GOTO.
There was always a "conventional" goto in C, and now there are also "computed" goto's there, yet we never had much of "spaghetti code" issues in C programming. Hence my welcome to goto which often appears to be the only graceful way out in quite a number of practical coding situations (especially when one wishes to reuse blocks of similar code under different conditions), and my rejection of line numbers which thus appear to be the only reason of "spaghetti code" issue in retro-BASIC listings with their cumbersome yet indispensable line numbering.
'D' — deduction. Elementary, my dear Watson! (c) :D
It's unfinished, feels dated ...
Script BASIC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScriptBasic) was finished even way back when it first appeared on its original scriptbasic dot com site. It came in two flavors (Linux and Windows), was supplied with exhaustive user and developer documentation, and included a number of exemplary and practical extensions (both front- and back-end) to allow for future diversification and expansion.
Peter Verhas was as meticulous a language developer as there only can be. What his successors tried and achieved to a varying degree of success was building upon the solid base he was so prescient to provide.
SpecBas, on the other hand, is an unique project that offers something really original.
SpecBAS is essentially a more or less successful steam-punk project and should be treated as such. Nuff said.
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The havoc usually begins when somebody instigates, accidentally or on purpose, that silly discussion about "the most beginner-friendly BASIC" again — before the aging audience of chieftains with no Indians. Last time it was menn, this time it is B+. While you guys are at it, the beginners are mastering OxygenBasic. ;)
Mark, sure you wouldn't meddle in the public conversation of two passers-by walking the same street as you even if they'd be talking things you don't particularly like? That would be trolling, not my mentioning someone in my words addressed to my interlocutor.
Hey Mike,
Exactly who was your interlocutee here, it looks to me like your signed off with D with that big old bar and were then addressing all us.
"While you guys are at it." yep. (Sorry to disturb your vacation but this is fun.)
By the way, I would interrupt a conversation on the street if they were talking about me, after I got over the shock of it.
I would also have to set them straight if they were saying what a sh*t Mike was. I mean you've got to respect a loyal friend.
So tell John he can come back (if he wants to), I insist (can't speak for everyone) (if you want to). This might have D see red for the 2nd time in his life and get me kicked off the island but I will risk it. I always loved the transformation scene in movies where the bad men see the light and change their evil ways. It could happen.
I will try to put up with his commercial interruptions, as I do with Tomaaz and Aurel bickering and D's line numbers and Richey's silly discussion about the most beginner friendly Basic and whatever the hell B+ is up to??? I must say the other's sins don't hold a candle to commercial interruptions but I will try to not get "hysterical" (as if I could). He might try and put up with our having some fun. Maybe if we all try real hard... ;)
BTW the Indians are looking really good this year, good thing because I think the Cavs are up for a great fall, it may be a long winter.
(Even before the big 'ol bar across half the screen, you said "Nuff said." Again that sure sounds like a sign off with the interlocutee.)
Nuff said? ;)
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All My Children
As the World Turns These Are the Days of Our Lives
From These Roots of The Dark Shadows of The Secret Storm
we Search for Tomorrow The Guiding Light
with Passions Of The Bold and Beautiful
from Dallas to Santa Barbara
from Falcon Crest to Port Charlse
for Ryan's Hope, A Brighter Day
at The Edge of Night in the General Hospital with Grey's Anatomy
gone Black...
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... I really hate line numbers and GOTO.
There was always a "conventional" goto in C, and now there are also "computed" goto's there, yet we never had much of "spaghetti code" issues in C programming. Hence my welcome to goto which often appears to be the only graceful way out in quite a number of practical coding situations (especially when one wishes to reuse blocks of similar code under different conditions), and my rejection of line numbers which thus appear to be the only reason of "spaghetti code" issue in retro-BASIC listings with their cumbersome yet indispensable line numbering.
'D' — deduction. Elementary, my dear Watson! (c) :D
It's unfinished, feels dated ...
Script BASIC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScriptBasic) was finished even way back when it first appeared on its original scriptbasic dot com site. It came in two flavors (Linux and Windows), was supplied with exhaustive user and developer documentation, and included a number of exemplary and practical extensions (both front- and back-end) to allow for future diversification and expansion.
Peter Verhas was as meticulous a language developer as there only can be. What his successors tried and achieved to a varying degree of success was building upon the solid base he was so prescient to provide.
SpecBas, on the other hand, is an unique project that offers something really original.
SpecBAS is essentially a more or less successful steam-punk project and should be treated as such. Nuff said.
____________________________________
The havoc usually begins when somebody instigates, accidentally or on purpose, that silly discussion about "the most beginner-friendly BASIC" again — before the aging audience of chieftains with no Indians. Last time it was menn, this time it is B+. While you guys are at it, the beginners are mastering OxygenBasic. ;)
Mark, sure you wouldn't meddle in the public conversation of two passers-by walking the same street as you even if they'd be talking things you don't particularly like? That would be trolling, not my mentioning someone in my words addressed to my interlocutor.
Hey Mike,
Exactly who was your interlocutee here, it looks to me like your signed off with D with that big old bar and were then addressing all us.
"While you guys are at it." yep. (Sorry to disturb your vacation but this is fun.)
By the way, I would interrupt a conversation on the street if they were talking about me, after I got over the shock of it.
I would also have to set them straight if they were saying what a sh*t Mike was. I mean you've got to respect a loyal friend.
So tell John he can come back (if he wants to), I insist (can't speak for everyone) (if you want to). This might have D see red for the 2nd time in his life and get me kicked off the island but I will risk it. I always loved the transformation scene in movies where the bad men see the light and change their evil ways. It could happen.
I will try to put up with his commercial interruptions, as I do with Tomaaz and Aurel bickering and D's line numbers and Richey's silly discussion about the most beginner friendly Basic and whatever the hell B+ is up to??? I must say the other's sins don't hold a candle to commercial interruptions but I will try to not get "hysterical" (as if I could). He might try and put up with our having some fun. Maybe if we all try real hard... ;)
BTW the Indians are looking really good this year, good thing because I think the Cavs are up for a great fall, it may be a long winter.
(Even before the big 'ol bar across half the screen, you said "Nuff said." Again that sure sounds like a sign off with the interlocutee.)
Nuff said? ;)
In fairness to Menn, he's not even registered on this site and B+ is innocent. I confess that I was the guilty party who instigated the Beginner Friendly BASIC thread. Very interesting I thought, especially considering the many different varieties of BASIC out there.. :)
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Aurel can behave like a blithering idiot at times
- Yo Paul Yo!
And besides, at least Aurel has actually written a few interpreters...
- Yes you right ...
just psssst ...i will add in new one LISTS,TUPLES and other powerful & flexibile things
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Hi Richey,
B+ not innocent, but having fun with John who thinks SB reserved for ScriptASIC.
see this thread:
http://retrogamecoding.org/board/index.php?topic=673.0
Another unbelievable commercial interruption in the middle of Cyb's welcome thread to SmallBASIC.
OK so we have to call SmallBASIC sb, not SB because as you can see John thinks ScriptASIC was there first for beginners (on servers?).
So B+ renames his little beginner interpreter BRUN to SB shorthand for Shorthand Basic because BRUN really is as much for Beginners as ScriptASIC but in a completely different way like it works from the get go without a bunch of hooey. Well this SB.exe does have CLS and Locate without need of an Extension or Pluggable library.
Do you know that just about any Basic is complete Editor, DataBase program, SpreadSheet, Browser... because you can RUN all these from a BASIC program no need for more dll, libraries... just like Frankenstein rebuilt from spare parts how glue-able is that! ?
BTW, I didn't think your thread title silly at all, just having more fun.
Nuff said?
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Exactly who was your interlocutee here ...
Sorry but both my FF spell checker and Cambridge dictionary flag this word as broken. OTOH "interlocutor" is primarily "one's opponent in a conversation". Was it meant to be an "interlo-cutie"? An attempt at newspeak?
it looks to me like your signed off with D with that big old bar
No, I signed off with 'D' (presumably that stands for Paul Dunn and his SpecBAS in your funny world of nicknames, handles and general "safe anonymity") with "nuff said".
Joking aside, I really do perceive his BASIC dialect as some engine in the vein of steam punk subculture:
(https://images.csmonitor.com/csmarchives/2010/12/1227-LSteampunk-05-STEAMPUNK-TREND-CULTURE.jpg?alias=standard_900x600nc)
and his followers, as a group of steam punk deviationists:
(http://continentaldrifts.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/main-image-126.jpg)
that may be fun to look at but are certainly not role models to follow for 10 year old young ladies.
And I am equally fascinated with that cute picture of amateur language dialects: (courtesy of JRS at AllBasic dot info :) )
(https://allbasic.info/picture_library/BRUN.gif)
that can hardly do anything but print a "Hello world" at the console prompt yet dare doctor the mature language developers on what's good and what's bad for a "beginner" and what's what on the BASIC scene in general. Sure language development is fun enough and a worthy challenge even at this rudimentary stage but you'll have miles and miles to go before you're able to cognize the real "blood, sweat and tears" of the profession.
FBSL had a standard 400 lines long BASIC include file that re-implemented LB's sprite graphics engine including its sprite animation scripting "language" in its entirety that worked up to 3 times faster and could handle up to 10 times more animated sprites than its (bloated, buggy, slow, and commercial) prototype. Now what LB user can lecture me on what regards the usability, beginner-friendliness, and applicability of Liberty Basic? :)
You know what? Why Richard Russell, the author of another successful LB rival -- LB Booster -- quit the old BP dot org was mainly for the same reason, which was the militant profanity of characters like menn that dominated the former home of defunct BASIC dialects. I wouldn't like to see retrogamecoding dot org follow suit.
... and were then addressing all us.
Your guesswork was wrong. My entire message was addressed to Tomaaz. I finished elaborating on his quotations with the bottom line and continued to comment, from my standpoint, on what he and his partizans were doing scoffing the ex-member in his absence.
"While you guys are at it." yep. (Sorry to disturb your vacation but this is fun.)
Scoffing is a pitiful sight to see, hardly any fun for a reasonable man.
I would also have to set them straight if they were saying what a sh*t Mike was. I mean you've got to respect a loyal friend.
I'm almost flattered reading this but on one condition: you should stop shouting in my ears. According to netiquette, capitalization and boldification of text equals yelling and is generally unwelcome among forum members.
So tell John he can come back (if he wants to), I insist ...
Will do, especially since Paul has also expressed a similar sentiment (hopefully my choice of the word was semantically and situationally correct ;) ).
I will try to put up with his commercial interruptions ...
And that's the most sensible statement I heard from you in quite a while, I must admit.
BTW the Indians are looking really good this year, good thing because I think the Cavs are up for a great fall, it may be a long winter.
I used to play basketball for about three years when my parents noticed I kept growing taller by 10 to 12 cm per year and sent me to a sports school. Luckily I stopped growing fast three years later and had a chance to go train my brain rather than muscles.
Nuff said? ;)
Hopefully yes.
(I also sincerely hope there were no animals, pets, beginners and language authors killed or harmed in that verbal duel. I recognize people's right to have fun but not at the expense of other people).
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Is anyone still interested in this debate? I don't think so. Mike, post some code, please (or the music you've created with MuLab).
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Is anyone still interested in this debate? I don't think so
hmmm....do i smell mew moderator here ::)
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Thank you for the invitation Tomaaz but no, I don't have fun posting BASIC code any more, or developing BASICs, for that matter.
You can find my code in the OxygenBasic distro, including a Scheme interpreter dialect (OxyScheme) written in O2 alonside Charles Pegge's own non-conformant LISP interpreter. You can evidently still find a LISP (or was it Scheme?) interpreter I ported from QB 4.5 to Script BASIC to get a better command of the latter (ve-e-e-e-ery slow but what would you expect from an interpreter written in another interpreter?). John and I did quite a bit of work extending the TinyScheme 32-bit public domain interpreter project to full 64 bits. And although the FBSL site is now gone, I can still send you the sources of my NanoScheme interpreter written in FBSL BASIC and Dynamic C, if you want. It was blazing fast and almost entirely R5RS conformant (that's a Scheme standard, not the latest but still rather rich in language and standard library features and extensions).
So I do know a lot about the insides of REPL, CAR/CDR, lists, lambdas, and tail recursion. You don't have to provoke me with serpentarian challenges to verify that. It's simply what they call "objective givenness", a rich heritage of many years of interpreter and compiler development experience. :)
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Thank you for the invitation Tomaaz but no, I don't have fun posting BASIC code any more, or developing BASICs, for that matter.
So, what are you still doing here??? Is your new hobby about telling us that once you were a great programmer? Or do you have an obsessive disorder that makes you believe that everything here is about you? Paul is here to troll you, I'm here to challenge you, B+ is here to annoy you. I can't speak for others, but you're really not that important to me. And if you are not planning to reply (here and now) to my topics by posting some code, don't do it at all. I'm not interested in your programming past at all. Why would I be?
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Is your new hobby about telling us that once you were a great programmer? Or do you have an obsessive disorder that makes you believe that everything here is about you?
Please abstain from bold personal attacks on me, Tomaaz. I didn't do, or intended to do, that to you either on the old BP dot org or here. I thought it was clear from our correspondence, go re-read it again just in case you might have forgotten. "Serpentarian" refers to your Python addiction rather than your other traits or characteristics.
Don't do it at all.
Excuse me? Did I ask for your advice or assistance in managing my own BASIC environment?
So, what are you still doing here???
Consider it as sort of phenological (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenology) interest I might have developed towards the afternoon of my life. ;)
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Please abstain from bold personal attacks on me, Tomaaz.
Obsessive disorder it is then... Also, I know nothing about "our correspondence". Are you sure you're not taking me for someone else? ???
Excuse me? Did I ask for your advice or assistance in managing my own BASIC environment?
Did me, Paul or B+ ask for your advice or assistance on anything? No, so why do you keep insisting on giving it? You admit that you neither code nor are interested in programming anymore, but at the same time you are here all the time telling us your patronising stuff.
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"Serpentarian" refers to your Python addiction rather than your other traits or characteristics.
I think "Herpetological" fits nicely also :)
Consider it as sort of phenological (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenology) interest I might have developed towards the afternoon of my life. ;)
Afternoon? Surely that's no so Mike - I thought you were getting in your Hot Cocoa for bedtime :)
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Also, I know nothing about "our correspondence". Are you sure you're not taking me for someone else? ???
This one (http://retrogamecoding.org/board/index.php?topic=689.msg5278#msg5278) and a few preceding messages qualify for rather respectful and fruitful correspondence, unless you're not the Tomaaz that I thanked for timely advice and assistance. So whose mentality is blurred and out of order, my young friend?
You admit that you neither code nor are interested in programming anymore, but at the same time you are here all the time ...
Nothing mysterious about it. 'P', like in "phenology", is the reason. Or did I tell you about it already?
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I think "Herpetological" fits nicely also :)
;D Hold on, Paul, you aren't going to get away so easily with what you've just said! ;D
I thought you were getting in your Hot Cocoa for bedtime :)
I'm a night owl -- have always been -- even by my timezone that's 3 hours ahead of yours. And I haven't looked up on my biological (vs. chronological) age yet. Who knows, perhaps that could swap our relative positions on the time line altogether, Paul. :)
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OK, Mike. As far I remember, you said you didn't like the sounds I recomended. Did I say something like "How dare you!? They are good quality, rich and perfectly usable sounds! And you're getting them for free!"? No, I didn't. You wanted something different (possibly better) and I simply accepted it. So why the hell, every single time when I say that I don't like ScriptBasic and want something different (possibly better), I have to listen to this patronising stuff about how great ScriptBasic is and how I don't understand anything about computers?
Python is not perfect. There is much I dont like about it. But, still - it's far more advanced than ScriptBasic and that's a fact (no matter what you, John, Aurel or myself think about it). Guys, we are not talking art here - not eveything is a matter of subjective opinion (to be honest, even in case of art it isn't).
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EDIT: (Nope better not...)
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Topic is currently locked. I am really thinking about to remove it for obvious reasons. >:(