Author Topic: Beginner friendly BASICs  (Read 8054 times)

ScriptBasic

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2018, 03:42:02 pm »
This is one area you will find hard to beat with Script BASIC. The extension and embedding APIs make SB expansion limitless.

B+

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2018, 04:26:00 pm »
Yes Richey,

I was inspired by Menn's no punctuation goal.

I am afraid SB is not for beginners. Still I like shorthand programs, it's fun to see how much you can do with so little.

For beginners, need to stick with whole word commands, I've been thinking: Set VariableName To ValueExpression
as the Syntax for setting variables which would always be string$ type and converted only when used in a math expression.

How about Play to start a loop and Replay to mark the end of a loop?

Thanks for re-sparking my interest in little interpreters.  I am reworking my main Evaluate Engine towards handling both math and string functions.



ScriptBasic

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2018, 09:23:37 pm »
When you can exceed the feature set of this calculator program, you can call your SB a language.

Qalculate



Code: [Select]
PRINT FORMAT("%d",1000000 / .0000001), "\n"


jrs@jrs-laptop:~/sb/examples/test$ scriba divcomp.sb
9999999999999
jrs@jrs-laptop:~/sb/examples/test$


Standard Linux Calculator




« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 05:23:27 am by John »

B+

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2018, 09:06:40 pm »
When you can exceed the feature set of this calculator program, you can call your SB a language.

Qalculate



Code: [Select]
PRINT FORMAT("%d",1000000 / .0000001), "\n"



jrs@jrs-laptop:~/sb/examples/test$ scriba divcomp.sb
9999999999999
jrs@jrs-laptop:~/sb/examples/test$


Standard Linux Calculator



 :o  WTH does this have to do with the price of coffee?

More dazzling with BS!
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 09:10:10 pm by B+ »

ZXDunny

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2018, 09:10:57 pm »
I think that he's saying that in order for any BASIC to be "Beginner Friendly" it should include the ability to script the behaviour of other applications via APIs - the calculator is just an example. Without that, any language that uses the abbreviation "SB" cannot be considered a BASIC language and as such is not suited to absolute beginners.

At least, I think that's what he driving at, and I'm sure we all agree.

B+

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2018, 09:13:12 pm »
I think that he's saying that in order for any BASIC to be "Beginner Friendly" it should include the ability to script the behaviour of other applications via APIs - the calculator is just an example. Without that, any language that uses the abbreviation "SB" cannot be considered a BASIC language and as such is not suited to absolute beginners.

At least, I think that's what he driving at, and I'm sure we all agree.

 ;D ;D ;D

ScriptBasic

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2018, 09:21:13 pm »
My point with the Qalculator example is the bar has been raised to what may be considered a programming language. This calculator can do most of the work traditional BASIC languages once did..

@B+ - Do I need to repost the wadding pool pic when you first joined?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 09:51:31 pm by John »

B+

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2018, 11:12:09 pm »
My point with the Qalculator example is the bar has been raised to what may be considered a programming language. This calculator can do most of the work traditional BASIC languages once did..

@B+ - Do I need to repost the wadding pool pic when you first joined?

Yeah John have a look at it yourself, check to see if you are on the right side.

The code I posted could probably handle all those functions without the pretty GUI except extended precision or arbitrary long integers that a masters or doctorate in some professional capacity might need.

I don't know why you are confusing beginners with professionals???

ScriptBasic

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2018, 12:14:35 am »
DECLARE you're Santa Claus and building toys and we will be entertained instead of taking you serious about building a language others might actually use.

B+

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2018, 12:46:51 pm »
DECLARE you're Santa Claus and building toys and we will be entertained instead of taking you serious about building a language others might actually use.

Yes I am messing around with little coders/interpreters, like BrainFun and sharing the joy, glad you got it now. :)

I find it a challenging skills building experience and it gives me a deeper appreciation of the basics that go into language creation.

Last night I think I finally figured out how to tell a - sign for subtraction from a - sign for a negative number without having it come in isolated by spaces (for subtraction) in a complex string expression, Subtraction in Basic, SB but Santa Basic will do too.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 01:13:49 pm by B+ »

ZXDunny

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2018, 01:27:47 pm »
You see, this is where all the friction comes from.

On the one hand, you have enthusiasts that for whatever reason like to make their own languages. They're fascinated with the myriad ways of encoding instructions into symbols and keywords, looking for new ways to achieve speed or usability, extracting great amounts of joy in seeing their efforts bear fruit and just generally having a grand ol' time of it.

There are the onlookers who want to learn to code, they download these projects and see if they can understand them, make them do what they want them to do, report bugs and issues and genuinely feel like they're making progress towards a loftier goal - being able to program a computer. Sure, they know that they're at the bottom of the heap, that they have a lot to learn but with each session they add a little more knowledge and sometimes a light goes on in their heads as they say, to paraphrase a famous author, "Ahh yes! I see how this must be so!" and the universe of programming makes a little more sense than it did before.

There are those who are the brethren of the language-makers, they download and look and see what has been done - and how. They congratulate the original author, and they make changes to their languages as they learn something new, that benefits any users they may have, and brings more joy to the lives of themselves and their users. The feedback loop is reinforced and once in a while something amazing is made, and we all get to reap that positivity.

And then there are those that are bitter, that feel that anyone that doesn't adhere to their views is wasting their time, is an idiot who is stubbornly on the wrong path and that those who make these "toy" languages are no better than the microscopic bugs they crush as they walk down a path out of doors because if they're not doing it professionally, if they're not doing it to elevate the languages that they feel are worthy then nothing they do is of any worth at all.

Angry and bitter people are these; they get no joy from their pursuits unlike the coders who do it purely for fun.

So they post scathing remarks about APIs and how their language of choice is better because they can do x, y, and z. "Admit that you are doing nothing of worth! Your endeavours are as nothing but toys!" they bellow into the empty darkness of their souls.

And while they do so, the people who play and do things for fun scratch their heads and say "fuck off, you joyless moron" and get on with doing whatever they want to do.

B+

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2018, 03:22:16 pm »
You see, this is where all the friction comes from.

On the one hand, you have enthusiasts that for whatever reason like to make their own languages. They're fascinated with the myriad ways of encoding instructions into symbols and keywords, looking for new ways to achieve speed or usability, extracting great amounts of joy in seeing their efforts bear fruit and just generally having a grand ol' time of it.

There are the onlookers who want to learn to code, they download these projects and see if they can understand them, make them do what they want them to do, report bugs and issues and genuinely feel like they're making progress towards a loftier goal - being able to program a computer. Sure, they know that they're at the bottom of the heap, that they have a lot to learn but with each session they add a little more knowledge and sometimes a light goes on in their heads as they say, to paraphrase a famous author, "Ahh yes! I see how this must be so!" and the universe of programming makes a little more sense than it did before.

There are those who are the brethren of the language-makers, they download and look and see what has been done - and how. They congratulate the original author, and they make changes to their languages as they learn something new, that benefits any users they may have, and brings more joy to the lives of themselves and their users. The feedback loop is reinforced and once in a while something amazing is made, and we all get to reap that positivity.

And then there are those that are bitter, that feel that anyone that doesn't adhere to their views is wasting their time, is an idiot who is stubbornly on the wrong path and that those who make these "toy" languages are no better than the microscopic bugs they crush as they walk down a path out of doors because if they're not doing it professionally, if they're not doing it to elevate the languages that they feel are worthy then nothing they do is of any worth at all.

Angry and bitter people are these; they get no joy from their pursuits unlike the coders who do it purely for fun.

So they post scathing remarks about APIs and how their language of choice is better because they can do x, y, and z. "Admit that you are doing nothing of worth! Your endeavours are as nothing but toys!" they bellow into the empty darkness of their souls.

And while they do so, the people who play and do things for fun scratch their heads and say "fuck off, you joyless moron" and get on with doing whatever they want to do.

Oh D, you were doing really good until the name calling.

One does not have to be a "joyless moron" to not get this kind of interest in something. Heck, my mother does not get it either, though she is quite patient about it.

ZXDunny

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2018, 03:38:21 pm »
You see, this is where all the friction comes from.

On the one hand, you have enthusiasts that for whatever reason like to make their own languages. They're fascinated with the myriad ways of encoding instructions into symbols and keywords, looking for new ways to achieve speed or usability, extracting great amounts of joy in seeing their efforts bear fruit and just generally having a grand ol' time of it.

There are the onlookers who want to learn to code, they download these projects and see if they can understand them, make them do what they want them to do, report bugs and issues and genuinely feel like they're making progress towards a loftier goal - being able to program a computer. Sure, they know that they're at the bottom of the heap, that they have a lot to learn but with each session they add a little more knowledge and sometimes a light goes on in their heads as they say, to paraphrase a famous author, "Ahh yes! I see how this must be so!" and the universe of programming makes a little more sense than it did before.

There are those who are the brethren of the language-makers, they download and look and see what has been done - and how. They congratulate the original author, and they make changes to their languages as they learn something new, that benefits any users they may have, and brings more joy to the lives of themselves and their users. The feedback loop is reinforced and once in a while something amazing is made, and we all get to reap that positivity.

And then there are those that are bitter, that feel that anyone that doesn't adhere to their views is wasting their time, is an idiot who is stubbornly on the wrong path and that those who make these "toy" languages are no better than the microscopic bugs they crush as they walk down a path out of doors because if they're not doing it professionally, if they're not doing it to elevate the languages that they feel are worthy then nothing they do is of any worth at all.

Angry and bitter people are these; they get no joy from their pursuits unlike the coders who do it purely for fun.

So they post scathing remarks about APIs and how their language of choice is better because they can do x, y, and z. "Admit that you are doing nothing of worth! Your endeavours are as nothing but toys!" they bellow into the empty darkness of their souls.

And while they do so, the people who play and do things for fun scratch their heads and say "fuck off, you joyless moron" and get on with doing whatever they want to do.

Oh D, you were doing really good until the name calling.

One does not have to be a "joyless moron" to not get this kind of interest in something. Heck, my mother does not get it either, though she is quite patient about it.

I suspect your mother doesn't harp on about how your new language isn't a language because it can't link to other apps and drive them via API calls.

ScriptBasic

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2018, 04:22:19 pm »
@B+  I'm glad you like the Santa Basic name. It fits your project and you very well.

Aurel

  • Guest
Re: Beginner friendly BASICs
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2018, 07:39:05 pm »
q
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 10:25:16 pm by Aurel »