Why do you care that much about BASIC part in the name of a language?

[Tomaaz]

whole discussion is pointless and useless as OP

I've always enjoyed discussions like that on BP.org and here. I don't want this place to be something similar to StackOverflow. You ask anonymously a very specific question, get a very specific answer (from someone who's completely anonymous to you) and that's it. This place is something more for me. And I will be starting topics like that in the future. If you're not interested, don't reply. Simple. Cause, you see - the topic is "pointless", "stupid", "no one cares" and then you realize that it has more replies than anything else here.

[ScriptBasic]

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius—and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.

-- E. F. Schumacher

[ZXDunny]

... the one thing that sets BASIC apart from all other languages -

GO TO a*20

I'm afraid that's pretty much not so, Paul. "Computed goto's" are part of C99 C language specification. They are also supported in FBSL's Dynamic C:   

Yes, but that takes a fair amount of setting up - and you'll have to insert labels for each section that you want the code to be able to jump to - and yeah, a CASE statement would be fine for that. Not *quite* the same thing, but I'll concede that one. You still lack line numbers though - and let's not forget that a GO TO to a non-existing line number will jump to the next line number in sequence... Which you could simulate by manipulating the array look-up somehow, I suppose.

As for John's assertion that CASE can't take an expression - it can in Pascal, and also in SpecBAS. I wasn't aware of that limitation in other languages?

[Mike Lobanovsky]

select case not limited if it can do Booleans.

CASE can't do expressions. Only variables (maybe ranges) and constants.

Nope. Depends on the language implementation. Charles' OxygenBasic supports

CASE <[=] var|lit
CASE <> var|lit
CASE >[=] var|lit

And I will be starting topics like that in the future.

a) That's called trolling;

... "pointless", "stupid", "no one cares" ...

b) that's flaming;

... and then you realize that it has more replies than anything else here.

c) and that's flooding.

Remember I warned you?

[ScriptBasic]

But again, you're overlaying your opinion on what a BASIC language should and insisting that this is how they should be

BASIC is achieving the minimal number of steps to accomplish a specific goal.

That is my quest with Script BASIC and I think it represents that concept well.

[Mike Lobanovsky]

Yes, but that takes a fair amount of setting up  - and you'll have to insert labels for each section that you want the code to be able to jump to ...

My C example in fact shows two use cases of computed gotos: a lookup table that should've been declared as static void** t[] to be filled only once at app start, and also goto *&&done; that's a computation of label's real memory address at run time. It could be goto *(&&done + 1 + 2 + 1);, whatever...

... and let's not forget that a GO TO to a non-existing line number will jump to the next line number in sequence...

Such cases are handled very efficiently in modern BASICs with an On Error Resume Next and On Error GoTo error trapping statements. Jumping to the line number following the non-existing one in sequence will eventually lead to an out-of-script-bounds exception if the miscalculated line number appears too high or too low.

As for John's assertion that CASE can't take an expression - it can in Pascal, and also in SpecBAS. I wasn't aware of that limitation in other languages?

FBSL BASIC doesn't support either Case ranges or Case boolean logic, only explicit enumeration. Its Dynamic C supports Case ranges as per the C99 specs. O2 supports both Case ranges and Case boolean logic.

[Tomaaz]

About John vs Paul situation. I kinda agree that "retro BASIC" and "traditional BASIC" is not exactly the same. Don't blame me - it wasn't me who made this mess with hundreds BASIC dialects etc. For me, it looks like this:

1. Retro BASIC. Line numbers, ":" to group statements in one line, heavy usage of GOTO (SpecBAS, Blassic, Vintage Basic...)
2. Traditional BASIC. No line numbers, functions ans subroutines instead of GOTO (Yabasic, ScriptBasic, QB64, FreeBASIC...)
3. Modern BASIC. No/optional sigils, generic FOR, build-in easy functions for manipulating files, networking and Internet, cryptography, sorting, mapping, matching, associative arrays, regular expressions., but still procedural syntax, no OOP. (PureBasic(?), Julia, Ring...)

a) That's called trolling;

Nope, that's not. Trolling is deliberately posting something that is off-topic and provocative. I've started this topic (in a off-topic section), so how can it be off-topic? Also, I was 100% serious and hasn't started this topic to see replies like "Well, because some people are retarded" etc. That would be trolling. You may not like my question but, considering the mess in BASIC world, it is absolutely valid.

b) that's flaming;

Agreed. And thanx for naming the things you and Aurel do in this topic.

c) and that's flooding.

Never heard of this one in a context you're trying to place it. Could you explain, please?

I remember from BP.org that you like to abuse the "you are just a troll" argument, when you don't like other people opinions or questions. As far I remember the next step is "OK. I've had enough of this place and the ignorant members here. Please, close my account". I hope it's not gonna happen here, but I'm not gonna stop writing about what is interesting for me.

[Mike Lobanovsky]

Could you explain, please?

No. That would be taking part in flooding. So, no.

I remember from BP.org ... As far I remember the next step is ...

You memory serves you badly.

I'm not gonna stop writing about what is interesting for me.

Even for a banana?

[Tomaaz]

You memory serves you badly.

That's almost trolling, but you're not quite there, yet. You need to try harder.

Even for a banana?

Yes! Congrats! That's trolling in a pure form.

[ScriptBasic]

1. Retro BASIC. Line numbers, ":" to group statements in one line, heavy usage of GOTO (SpecBAS, Blassic, Vintage Basic...)
2. Traditional BASIC. No line numbers, functions ans subroutines instead of GOTO (Yabasic, ScriptBasic, QB64, FreeBASIC...)
3. Modern BASIC. No/optional sigils, generic FOR, build-in easy functions for manipulating files, networking and Internet, cryptography, sorting, mapping, matching, associative arrays, regular expressions., but still procedural syntax, no OOP. (PureBasic(?), Julia, Ring...)

I can live with that. MS QB4.5 & 7 should go into the traditional slot.

[Aurel]

[

[ScriptBasic]

Script BASIC Retro Fun

Code: [Select]

30 LET A = 0
50 LET A = A + 1
60 IF A < 5 THEN GOTO 50
20 PRINT A
40 PRINT
10 END


jrs@laptop:~/sb/sb22/test$ scriba retro.sb
5
jrs@laptop:~/sb/sb22/test$

[Tomaaz]

..
....AND DO YOU CAN FINALLY TELL US WHO IS THE MEMBER OF THIS FORUM

Those, who voted for "comparing other languages", but didn't bother to check Julia or Ring. Plus general atmosphere. Marcus is still not sure if posting NaaLaa examples is off-topic or not. The same can be said about Lua. Of course, it was much worse on BP.org, but this place kind off took over from that forum.  And you're the one who first jump into the topic with "Who care? This is BASIC forum and dont post on Python, Lua, Julia, becose is offtopic and junk.", so don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about.

[Richly]

About John vs Paul situation. I kinda agree that "retro BASIC" and "traditional BASIC" is not exactly the same. Don't blame me - it wasn't me who made this mess with hundreds BASIC dialects etc. For me, it looks like this:

1. Retro BASIC. Line numbers, ":" to group statements in one line, heavy usage of GOTO (SpecBAS, Blassic, Vintage Basic...)
2. Traditional BASIC. No line numbers, functions ans subroutines instead of GOTO (Yabasic, ScriptBasic, QB64, FreeBASIC...)
3. Modern BASIC. No/optional sigils, generic FOR, build-in easy functions for manipulating files, networking and Internet, cryptography, sorting, mapping, matching, associative arrays, regular expressions., but still procedural syntax, no OOP. (PureBasic(?), Julia, Ring...)

Still not very clear cut in all cases.

SpecBAS, for example, also allows for the use of procedures (DEF PROC) instead of GO TO / GOSUB as well as functions (DEF FN) and DO...WHILE and DO...LOOP[UNTIL] loops, CASE and has lots of in-built functions you would otherwise find in 'traditional' or 'modern' BASICs.

Having said that, no category framework is going to be perfect and I don't think anyone would argue if you did describe SpecBAS, for example, as a 'retro-style' BASIC

[ScriptBasic]

Still not very clear cut in all cases.

I claim Script BASIC to be a traditional BASIC but with its limitless extension ability, it does COM, GUI, DBs along with embedding various other languages. (including itself)

@Paul - You may want to check out ProvideX (PvxPlus) Business BASIC. It has all the virtues you believe in. They have a single user full featured free version which should work fine for your needs.