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[ScriptBasic]

I wonder if we could pick up where mindteq left off?

I would be willing to add a BASIC Reference board on the AllBASIC forum if I don't have to do all the work.

[Richly]

What did I have in mind?

A List - brief synopsis of features, plus and minus... best written by someone supporting project to put it in best light, also would be proof of aliveness, someone speaking up for it!

A decent definition of alive or dead, ie proof of aliveness by naming active developer and/or support forum, updates.
Links! dead or alive

If dead, then present a death certificate ;-)

What is dead if people still use it or remember it fondly or are inspired by it.

A forum that has a Home page untouched for 3 years (mindteq) is certainly not active but not dead either because it's links to information still useful. How is Henry?

Perhaps instead of saying alive or dead, say date of last activity.

Sounds good. We have a lot of developers here: D, Mike, John, Peter, Aurel, n00b, Cybermonkey and perhaps others. As you say, they (or their keen supporters) are best placed to write their own entries if they feel so inclined and wish to participate; or they may wish to edit other people's entries.

It may encourage other developers and their users to join the forum and will be a bit of fun.

[Tomaaz]

A decent definition of alive or dead, ie proof of aliveness by naming active developer and/or support forum, updates.
Links! dead or alive

If dead, then present a death certificate ;-)

What is dead if people still use it or remember it fondly or are inspired by it.

For me "dead/alive" has nothing to do with users. It's all about development. Language is dead if I know there will be no new features, bug fixes and optimization for new hardware or new operating systems. And the fact that the project is open source and there is a possibility that someone else may take over in the future doesn't change anything. When it happens then the language becomes alive again, but before it happens it's dead. Of course, I don't have a problem with people using dead languages. It's their choice and not my problem, but a language which last version was released in 2005 can't be called "alive" only because there is a few folks somewhere who still use it.

[Aurel]

ut a language which last version was released in 2005 can't be called "alive" only because there is a few folks somewhere who still use it.

Which one is that? 

[Tomaaz]

Which one is that? 

Does anyone else need a detailed explanation of that general example? 

[B+]

Which one is that? 

Does anyone else need a detailed explanation of that general example? 

Sure, we can practice writing a death certificate, make it official and all.

Tomaaz: "It's all about development."

I disagree, if it's all about one thing (which it is not) I would say, "It's all about usage." Sure development may be the most lively / creative part of a language, but if we are talking dead or alive then I say usage is key.

[Tomaaz]

I disagree, if it's all about one thing (which it is not) I would say, "It's all about usage."

Well, the only area where this is true is retro computing (8 and 16 bit). There are still folks writing for C64 and they don't want or need any improvements or new features, but that's it. In modern computing programming languages should be treated like any other programs or even operating systems. There have been thousands of Linux distros created, but majority of them are now abandoned. It's possible that someone somewhere is using them, but that doesn't make them alive. The same applies to programs. I'm pretty sure that plenty of abandoned programs are still in use, but if the developer, for example, openly admits that the development has stopped and there will be no new features, no optimization and no bug fixes then the program is dead. Not so long ago someone told me that he'd seen computers with Win 95 working in 2018. Does it make Win 95 alive? Come on.

[B+]

I wonder if we could pick up where mindteq left off?

I would be willing to add a BASIC Reference board on the AllBASIC forum if I don't have to do all the work.

Hey John,

If you did that, I might have to come over and visit more, maybe even... well we'll see.

I hope you make it easier for people to sign up to post than Cybermonkey.

That was part of my plan (just planned now!) for people to come in and represent in Community Announcements, I don't want to do all the work either, look what it has done for poor Henry.

(Henry, if you are alive, come and visit! maybe Cybermonkey will setup a board for you? That would be cool!)

But maybe we can offer the service of pronouncing the dead, because they can't do it for themselves.

[B+]

Schrödinger's cat?

;-)) love it!

What was last known date it was seen alive? Wait... is there a link?

[B+]

I disagree, if it's all about one thing (which it is not) I would say, "It's all about usage."

Well, the only area where this is true is retro computing (8 and 16 bit). There are still folks writing for C64 and they don't want or need any improvements or new features, but that's it. In modern computing programming languages should be treated like any other programs or even operating systems. There have been thousands of Linux distros created, but majority of them are now abandoned. It's possible that someone somewhere is using them, but that doesn't make them alive. The same applies to programs. I'm pretty sure that plenty of abandoned programs are still in use, but if the developer, for example, openly admits that the development has stopped and there will be no new features, no optimization and no bug fixes then the program is dead. Not so long ago someone told me that he'd seen computers with Win 95 working in 2018. Does it make Win 95 alive? Come on.

Spoken like a computer scientist surfing the cutting edge of the Next New Wave!

So I know this guy who is developing little interpreters one after the other, still doing it, improving all the time. He has 0, nada, following, it is a language because he is communicating with the machine evens gets feedback. So that's alive? Where are we going?

Alive and dead are opinions, last known address, activities, people speaking up are verifiable if not self evident.

[Tomaaz]

So I know this guy who is developing little interpreters one after the other, still doing it, improving all the time. He has 0, nada, following, it is a language because he is communicating with the machine evens gets feedback. So that's alive? Where are we going?

The one(s) he is developing currently is/are alive. If he's abandoned some of them, they are dead. What's your point? Have you ever seen a programming language that had a massive number of users right after first alpha release? They are all start from 0. It is only developer's hard work and determination that keeps the project alive and let it gain some users and become more and more popular. On the other hand, when the developers quit, users start to go. Sure, it's not gonna happen overnight and some hard-core fans may stay as long as possible, but the project is dead. Look what's happened to EGSL. I was interested in using it, Johnno wanted to try it, there was a guy from Haiku community who wanted to keep it alive there. But Markus has decided to stop developing it and none of us is using it. For me it's lack of documentation and fear it may simply stop working on future Linux distros. For Johnno, problems with installation and the fact that it's not in development anymore. For Haiku guys, no support from the developer. Do you really believe that number of users is not related to the development status?

[B+]

My point:

Alive and dead are opinions, last known address, activities, people speaking up are verifiable if not self evident.

[ScriptBasic]

I wonder if we could pick up where mindteq left off?

I would be willing to add a BASIC Reference board on the AllBASIC forum if I don't have to do all the work.

Hey John,

If you did that, I might have to come over and visit more, maybe even... well we'll see.

I hope you make it easier for people to sign up to post than Cybermonkey.

That was part of my plan (just planned now!) for people to come in and represent in Community Announcements, I don't want to do all the work either, look what it has done for poor Henry.

(Henry, if you are alive, come and visit! maybe Cybermonkey will setup a board for you? That would be cool!)

But maybe we can offer the service of pronouncing the dead, because they can't do it for themselves.

Maybe a Wiki would be a better choice. Let me know your interest level and we can get the ball rolling. I like the idea of those most familiar with the language creating the submission.

[Tomaaz]

Alive and dead are opinions...

No, they aren't. You just can't see the difference between a language itself, its community and people who use it.  If someone wants to use a dead language then I can't see a reason why they shouldn't. Myself, I wouldn't, but it's their choice, not mine. But that language is still dead.

[Aurel]

YaBasic ...alive ?
Yes he can create every month new update but where are users,groups
No ..nothing just BS.

Come on guys the LIST I present is from mindteq..which is also dead place
or better abandoned...some years ago it is a reference site but today mean nothing.